Dixie, even though I'm not in the humanities I would agree wholeheartedly with #3 and #4 for anyone considering a PhD of any kind. I left a fully funded STEM PhD program because no one told me what getting a PhD really meant, but in their defense, I didn't really ask! My discernment was basically, "I like school, I like to learn things, other people seem to think this would be a good thing for me to do, so OK." This is . . . insufficient to say the least ;-) My advisor told me that a PhD requires a "fire in your belly" to know as much as possible about your specific area, and I was definitely lacking in that.
But my dad gave me some good advice when I graduated from college that I think ties in to the question of being prepared to shift roles in life - "You can lose a lot in this life; people you love, money, your reputation, even your health. But no one can ever take the things you learn away from you." This is why I hate the notion (or even the implication!) that anyone who isn't "using" their college degree is "wasting" it. Nothing that you learn is ever, ever wasted.
I think you've got great advice! I simply still do not understand how so many of our generation wasted years of their lives, and so much money pursuing degrees that would never in many hundreds of years pay for themselves, let alone if they became stay at home parents. And that's not to say that that education is in itself bad, or not useful, but we really were living in a dream world of actual usefulness when so many of us pursued degrees. I think the problem is how we view a college degree as a social status thing. If everyone had a degree in a solid liberal arts/humanties education that would be one thing--obviously everyone would be so much smarter, or other practical degrees that equal jobs, but for most people to have useless degrees in psychology or theatre design that they can never feed a family on is really sad and unfortunate. There were a few people I knew who, like you, had the genuine desire to keep learning and to pursue academia and have been really successful, but there were so many others who collected degrees and debt and no longer work in any of those fields today. I would definitely give your advice to my own kids and to constantly remind them that they should include practicality and the value of education in their discernment as much as possible.
"You just can’t know the future – but you can make choices that will serve you well now. You can’t anticipate what the job market will be like eight years hence, you don’t know what your family situation will be, and you’re not likely to make very much money as compared to others with similar levels of education in different fields. But you can discern whether you would like to give yourself over wholeheartedly to the pursuit of wisdom in graduate school if the spark drives you there right now – and in later years, you can let that same wisdom guide you as you make decisions about wage-work and family life."
Graduate school (PhD) is generally fully funded. Masters degrees are generally not. Around 60K is what I see most running around for a counseling degree.
I would implore people to first think of family life and then a career that can go along with that. I turned down a funded Masters degree in accounting because I would have to take on more debt (non-tuition costs like rent etc) and I would have to delay having a family until my early 30s while I got the degree, worked for the credentials, slaved away at the cube farm and then could take maternity leave and put my child in day care.
Women and men are different. Our biological clocks are on different timelines. It would make more sense for society to push men into college/trades at 16 and women into practical life skills training if they even for a second think they want children/family. And by push, I don't mean force.
I somehow stumbled into a relationship at 24 and decided to become a homemaker who plans to homeschool and now have 2 children and I'm pretty happy with the decisions. I'm sure I would've been depressed on a cube farm.
But, this isn't to say that once my children are older, I can't go back to college and get another degree. It goes back to the different clocks/timelines for men vs women.
I just wish people were told the truth, at young ages in mass.
What a great conversation! (I'm gone for one day and I feel like I missed so much, ha!)
I love the way you highlight the importance of discernment. I did not discern well regarding grad school, despite getting some good advice. Janet Smith said she would tell people not to go to grad school unless they couldn't *not* go. I was more in the "I'm good at school and everyone says I should and what would I do otherwise, anyway?" camp. I even had one theology prof tell me, multiple times: "you will never make any money. You have to be ok with never making money. If you ever want to support a family, this isn't a great fit." At the time, I didn't have a lot of concerns about making money (I figured I'd find a way - I was good at living frugally, etc.). Maybe I was just particularly deaf in my 20s!
I think the other thing is that graduate school is not necessarily the same as "an education." I know many well-read, interesting and interested people, who do not have graduate degrees. The older I get, the less of a snob I become about it all. I think grad school/ academia can be a good fit for those who have a particular, narrow, interest or question and are happy to spend 30+ years in the weeds about it: those are the people I've seen happiest in their fields, if that makes sense.
I think another thing I would encourage people to think about — especially women perhaps — is that it IS possible to go on to have a second career later in life. I have several wonderful examples of this in my life. An aunt who had ten children, returned to school for an MA in counseling when her youngest was in middle school and is now in private practice. My husband’s grandma became a direct entry midwife when her youngest of 7 was in high school. So I really love examples of women like this; it gives me a lot of hope that there’s so many ways to do things.
Dixie, even though I'm not in the humanities I would agree wholeheartedly with #3 and #4 for anyone considering a PhD of any kind. I left a fully funded STEM PhD program because no one told me what getting a PhD really meant, but in their defense, I didn't really ask! My discernment was basically, "I like school, I like to learn things, other people seem to think this would be a good thing for me to do, so OK." This is . . . insufficient to say the least ;-) My advisor told me that a PhD requires a "fire in your belly" to know as much as possible about your specific area, and I was definitely lacking in that.
But my dad gave me some good advice when I graduated from college that I think ties in to the question of being prepared to shift roles in life - "You can lose a lot in this life; people you love, money, your reputation, even your health. But no one can ever take the things you learn away from you." This is why I hate the notion (or even the implication!) that anyone who isn't "using" their college degree is "wasting" it. Nothing that you learn is ever, ever wasted.
I was so excited to read your opinion on this!
I think you've got great advice! I simply still do not understand how so many of our generation wasted years of their lives, and so much money pursuing degrees that would never in many hundreds of years pay for themselves, let alone if they became stay at home parents. And that's not to say that that education is in itself bad, or not useful, but we really were living in a dream world of actual usefulness when so many of us pursued degrees. I think the problem is how we view a college degree as a social status thing. If everyone had a degree in a solid liberal arts/humanties education that would be one thing--obviously everyone would be so much smarter, or other practical degrees that equal jobs, but for most people to have useless degrees in psychology or theatre design that they can never feed a family on is really sad and unfortunate. There were a few people I knew who, like you, had the genuine desire to keep learning and to pursue academia and have been really successful, but there were so many others who collected degrees and debt and no longer work in any of those fields today. I would definitely give your advice to my own kids and to constantly remind them that they should include practicality and the value of education in their discernment as much as possible.
This is really wise! I loved the conclusion:
"You just can’t know the future – but you can make choices that will serve you well now. You can’t anticipate what the job market will be like eight years hence, you don’t know what your family situation will be, and you’re not likely to make very much money as compared to others with similar levels of education in different fields. But you can discern whether you would like to give yourself over wholeheartedly to the pursuit of wisdom in graduate school if the spark drives you there right now – and in later years, you can let that same wisdom guide you as you make decisions about wage-work and family life."
Graduate school (PhD) is generally fully funded. Masters degrees are generally not. Around 60K is what I see most running around for a counseling degree.
I would implore people to first think of family life and then a career that can go along with that. I turned down a funded Masters degree in accounting because I would have to take on more debt (non-tuition costs like rent etc) and I would have to delay having a family until my early 30s while I got the degree, worked for the credentials, slaved away at the cube farm and then could take maternity leave and put my child in day care.
Women and men are different. Our biological clocks are on different timelines. It would make more sense for society to push men into college/trades at 16 and women into practical life skills training if they even for a second think they want children/family. And by push, I don't mean force.
I somehow stumbled into a relationship at 24 and decided to become a homemaker who plans to homeschool and now have 2 children and I'm pretty happy with the decisions. I'm sure I would've been depressed on a cube farm.
But, this isn't to say that once my children are older, I can't go back to college and get another degree. It goes back to the different clocks/timelines for men vs women.
I just wish people were told the truth, at young ages in mass.
What a great conversation! (I'm gone for one day and I feel like I missed so much, ha!)
I love the way you highlight the importance of discernment. I did not discern well regarding grad school, despite getting some good advice. Janet Smith said she would tell people not to go to grad school unless they couldn't *not* go. I was more in the "I'm good at school and everyone says I should and what would I do otherwise, anyway?" camp. I even had one theology prof tell me, multiple times: "you will never make any money. You have to be ok with never making money. If you ever want to support a family, this isn't a great fit." At the time, I didn't have a lot of concerns about making money (I figured I'd find a way - I was good at living frugally, etc.). Maybe I was just particularly deaf in my 20s!
I think the other thing is that graduate school is not necessarily the same as "an education." I know many well-read, interesting and interested people, who do not have graduate degrees. The older I get, the less of a snob I become about it all. I think grad school/ academia can be a good fit for those who have a particular, narrow, interest or question and are happy to spend 30+ years in the weeds about it: those are the people I've seen happiest in their fields, if that makes sense.
I think another thing I would encourage people to think about — especially women perhaps — is that it IS possible to go on to have a second career later in life. I have several wonderful examples of this in my life. An aunt who had ten children, returned to school for an MA in counseling when her youngest was in middle school and is now in private practice. My husband’s grandma became a direct entry midwife when her youngest of 7 was in high school. So I really love examples of women like this; it gives me a lot of hope that there’s so many ways to do things.