I think the conversation about supporting gifted children needs to be re-grounded in assessing and meeting their actual needs. This piece was a great example of that re-grounding!
That muffin recipe is great! I found it a few years ago, and tip for starting hot the first 5 minutes or so works with other recipes too.
One thing that makes making new friends difficult for me is rejection sensitivity. But I'm working on not letting that have as much power in my head. Also feeling like social norms don't allow for the kind of 'get to know you' questions I'd prefer - it seems jumping right to the deep stuff is frowned upon. Or maybe I just don't do casual friendship well...
This resonates with me, Jenn...some additional formality/structure/norms in the getting-to-know-you stage would help, right? So we would know what to do and not feel all awkward...
But there are social structures; it's just difficult for us neurodivergent types to figure them out effectively. Or, when we do know them, not to think them stupid and restrictive, as I often do. The rules are not as obvious as in Jane Austen, but they're how you know not to actually answer the cashier honestly when they ask how you are. It's how you know that casual conversation is acceptable at parties, and people will think you're a weirdo if you show too much excitement over some random topic, like say chickens. Or if you ask questions that would be considered too personal or deep after just meeting them.
I love that as a mom there's always the subject of kids that can be safely discussed with other moms, because it's obvious common ground, but I hate that it often doesn't go deeper than that. Especially if it's a new mom you just met at the playground. What we need is for it not to be weird to ask said moms on dates. The whole thing is 'why it hard to make friends?' Because it's hard to say "Hey, you seem really nice, maybe we could meet up again sometime?" without seeming like a creeper.
Like both of you - I'd absolutely love to get to know you better, but 1. Matching schedules can be difficult. 2. You both probably have pre-established friendships you'd rather maintain. 3. Who knows if you actually really like me the same way?
I guess that's what it seems to boil down to for me.
Jenn, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. I think you're right that these thing are especially hard for neurodivergent folks. One of my children is neurodivergent and so I see this a lot. Acceptance and just chilling the heck out a bit (on the part of those who are normative) goes a long way in helping out with this, in my experience.
I think Kate and I are exploring our sense that the problem is more widely shared, too. One of the issues I know I have dealt with (and it sounds like you have, too) is getting up the courage to reach out only to be rebuffed. Of course, sometimes this is just going to happen because not everybody clicks with everybody else or has the same social needs. But it seems to happen *a lot,* and even between close friends. Boundaries are good, but openness can also be good. The first essay here explored in part whether the have/have not extended family thing played a role, which I think it does.
But there's more to it. As you say, we need "for it not to be weird" to try to make friends or to need help. But there's more, too. Like reciprocity in giving and receiving help. And being honest about concerns. And arranging life so that casual interaction is actually possible -- you don't always have "no time," as the poll above indicated.
There's going to be way too much to fit into one essay, but I'm thrilled to be having this discussion.
I was so happy when you were able to come to Winter Wonder occasionally this year :) Hope to see you lots this summer!!
That's right - I forgot the main point of the article because I had to "go home" and obsess over my answer for a while... 🤣
I think there's an aversion to vulnerability in our society, perhaps because America is considered to have been build by "pull yourself up by you bootstraps" kind of people (which is patently false), and, at least for the Christians, a massive emphasis on "offering it up" and not "running from your vocation". Not to mention the seemingly pervasive attitude of "you made your bed, now lie in it."
Personally, I have a difficult time asking for help when I think said help will be an inconvenience for the helper, and especially when I know the person I'm asking is overwhelmed by life too. It's becoming easier as I have deepened some friendships, and grown as a person, but there's still a gut reaction against it.
I think the polarization of seemingly every topic of conversation is a barrier to friendship right now. It’s tough to know what to discuss that will find common ground between you without alienating the potential friend in the event that you have differing world views. Then on the other hand, if you don’t discuss deeper or more meaningful things you may never find a friend who shares your world view, or be left with only superficial interactions.
What a great insight, Greta. There's a lot of nervousness as you're trying to "place" someone because you're afraid that if you say the "wrong" thing you might really upset them. It probably takes more courage and willingness to suffer hurt to try to make new friends now than it did in a less polarized time.
Yes, let me reiterate, the muffins are *so high*!
Seriously, it's a great recipe!
Glad you enjoyed the piece!
I think the conversation about supporting gifted children needs to be re-grounded in assessing and meeting their actual needs. This piece was a great example of that re-grounding!
That muffin recipe is great! I found it a few years ago, and tip for starting hot the first 5 minutes or so works with other recipes too.
One thing that makes making new friends difficult for me is rejection sensitivity. But I'm working on not letting that have as much power in my head. Also feeling like social norms don't allow for the kind of 'get to know you' questions I'd prefer - it seems jumping right to the deep stuff is frowned upon. Or maybe I just don't do casual friendship well...
This resonates with me, Jenn...some additional formality/structure/norms in the getting-to-know-you stage would help, right? So we would know what to do and not feel all awkward...
But there are social structures; it's just difficult for us neurodivergent types to figure them out effectively. Or, when we do know them, not to think them stupid and restrictive, as I often do. The rules are not as obvious as in Jane Austen, but they're how you know not to actually answer the cashier honestly when they ask how you are. It's how you know that casual conversation is acceptable at parties, and people will think you're a weirdo if you show too much excitement over some random topic, like say chickens. Or if you ask questions that would be considered too personal or deep after just meeting them.
I love that as a mom there's always the subject of kids that can be safely discussed with other moms, because it's obvious common ground, but I hate that it often doesn't go deeper than that. Especially if it's a new mom you just met at the playground. What we need is for it not to be weird to ask said moms on dates. The whole thing is 'why it hard to make friends?' Because it's hard to say "Hey, you seem really nice, maybe we could meet up again sometime?" without seeming like a creeper.
Like both of you - I'd absolutely love to get to know you better, but 1. Matching schedules can be difficult. 2. You both probably have pre-established friendships you'd rather maintain. 3. Who knows if you actually really like me the same way?
I guess that's what it seems to boil down to for me.
Jenn, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. I think you're right that these thing are especially hard for neurodivergent folks. One of my children is neurodivergent and so I see this a lot. Acceptance and just chilling the heck out a bit (on the part of those who are normative) goes a long way in helping out with this, in my experience.
I think Kate and I are exploring our sense that the problem is more widely shared, too. One of the issues I know I have dealt with (and it sounds like you have, too) is getting up the courage to reach out only to be rebuffed. Of course, sometimes this is just going to happen because not everybody clicks with everybody else or has the same social needs. But it seems to happen *a lot,* and even between close friends. Boundaries are good, but openness can also be good. The first essay here explored in part whether the have/have not extended family thing played a role, which I think it does.
But there's more to it. As you say, we need "for it not to be weird" to try to make friends or to need help. But there's more, too. Like reciprocity in giving and receiving help. And being honest about concerns. And arranging life so that casual interaction is actually possible -- you don't always have "no time," as the poll above indicated.
There's going to be way too much to fit into one essay, but I'm thrilled to be having this discussion.
I was so happy when you were able to come to Winter Wonder occasionally this year :) Hope to see you lots this summer!!
That's right - I forgot the main point of the article because I had to "go home" and obsess over my answer for a while... 🤣
I think there's an aversion to vulnerability in our society, perhaps because America is considered to have been build by "pull yourself up by you bootstraps" kind of people (which is patently false), and, at least for the Christians, a massive emphasis on "offering it up" and not "running from your vocation". Not to mention the seemingly pervasive attitude of "you made your bed, now lie in it."
Personally, I have a difficult time asking for help when I think said help will be an inconvenience for the helper, and especially when I know the person I'm asking is overwhelmed by life too. It's becoming easier as I have deepened some friendships, and grown as a person, but there's still a gut reaction against it.
I think the polarization of seemingly every topic of conversation is a barrier to friendship right now. It’s tough to know what to discuss that will find common ground between you without alienating the potential friend in the event that you have differing world views. Then on the other hand, if you don’t discuss deeper or more meaningful things you may never find a friend who shares your world view, or be left with only superficial interactions.
What a great insight, Greta. There's a lot of nervousness as you're trying to "place" someone because you're afraid that if you say the "wrong" thing you might really upset them. It probably takes more courage and willingness to suffer hurt to try to make new friends now than it did in a less polarized time.