Dixie, I found this so practical and helpful, especially the tips about how you’ve created an outdoor and hands-on culture of play/leisure for your children. I’m also inspired by your perspective that yes, technology is actually good and useful when used judiciously, and we don't need to totally anathematize it. It’s easy to become either polarized (full-on Luddite) or apathetic; more difficult to be realistic, wise and in control. Thanks for helping show us the way to do so.
Catie, thank you. I'm so glad it's helpful. I was talking about this again with my husband last night; for example, neither of us thinks TV is really good for children, as in, in a perfect world, they'd be better off never watching it at all. But in the context we are in, where we don't have as many other ways to take little breaks from our kiddoes as we might if we had a more supportive broader situation, sometimes it *is* good for kids in that it meets my need for a break (rather than getting to *breakdown* stage) and we can choose things that are at least close to neutral/good for them to watch.
I cannot recommend buying those 8-foot 2X3's enough! They get played with every day, an have lasted for 7 years so far! Kids who visit our house also make a beeline for them. They create opportunities not just for being outside, but also for teamwork, negotiation, creative engineering, and heavy work (which is so grounding).
A good reminder for me :) We've been (all of us) much more imbedded in screens due to life being so life-y. But yes, when we set up those parameters and add good things and outdoor time and plenty of library books there's much less fussing for screens. Full dinner bellies eat less dessert ;) And I will not complain about plenty of family rest time in front of a movie, because there are some seasons where that IS your best.
"Full dinner bellies eat less dessert!" That is a great way of putting it. Another diet culture parallel -- if your are all hungry and all you can manage that night is cereal for dinner, EAT THE CEREAL. Don't just...not eat because cereal isn't good for you! In that case, cereal *is* good for you.
Your comment also made me think of the seasonality of it all...a screen-heavy season for good reasons does not mean it will always be this way. Sometimes I fall into the trap of thinking that right now is how things will be forever...but things are always changing.
Nov 28, 2023·edited Nov 28, 2023Liked by Dixie Dillon Lane
The seasonality of it all!! I am trying to figure this out for myself, too (mostly when it's just me caring for our boys). Having young kids -- oftentimes with very little nap overlap -- means I could very well go entire days with no quiet space if I didn't let the older boys watch a show at very particular times. There are so many good things our young kids can (and do!) find to do during the day... but sometimes in the absence of any childcare or family around to give those breaks other families may have.... the show is what's best. And I don't feel guilty about it in this season! (Being an introvert who recharges by delving into the world of words is.... challenging with 3 kids under 4 haha.)
And later on, you'll probably go through seasons of no or fewer shows, when you have the energy and time and the kids have the maturity to create more of their own amusement! And that will be good for then! Not using a show when the show break makes so much difference in your mental and emotional (and physical! lying down!) help is pretty unwise. The time to remove shows entirely in my house, at least, is a time when I have other ways of restoring myself and getting breaks. But other wise, the show can actually really be the wise thing!
I have been pondering for a day and I am struggling to put my finger on my response to this piece. In theory I like the idea of "add before you subtract" and I think it's wise advice. But especially when it comes to the social aspects of tech and connection, I think adding is really hard due to structural factors, and subtracting is hard but lonely. This seems abstract, so here's an example. I quit Facebook in 2014 after having been an infrequent user for a few years, and I've never had any social media since. It's a near occasion of sin for me and moderation is harder to maintain than an explicit ban. But there isn't a real way to "add" that type of high-frequency, update-style connection with friends, family, and community back into my life. Social media is where lives are lived now, and I've missed out on a LOT (open invites to playground playdates, COVID exposure notifications, neighborhood meeting information, just to name a few, and this is just the stuff I know about) by not participating. There really isn't a substitute as far as I've found, and loneliness and isolation are simply the price I have paid for not participating, and that price is steep. I think there are a lot of ways around the "new tech" issues, because you can find other ways in and/or make use of "older" tech (you can listen to CDs rather than stream, you can play Scrabble rather than Words with Friends, etc.) but tech has so drastically changed *how we relate to and communicate with each other* that I have been forced to adopt a more binary position than I really want to take. In or out, no substitutions.
Right -- this is interesting! The invites and info groups are certainly things that technically *could* be communicated another way than social media, but you're right -- there are certain things that will be missed out on in the absense of a viable substitution. Those people most likely aren't going to think "Oh yeah, we need to send out an email or message to XYZ people who aren't in this Facebook group."
I say email lists should make a comeback for the norm again. :) But alas...
Or we have to create a sort of alternative social economy...so much about this at the FPR conference. Honestly, this can happen. I will attest that I myself find the steps needed for this terrifying. Actually accepting help from a neighbor when no one else seems to be doing it? Terrifying!! But what is the alternative???
For sure. This requires imagination and a collective resolve (even in small ways). But creating other social economies is the only alternative to....... *gestures all around*.
Yes. It's hard work. And when you're already feeling lonely and tired, it's tough. But I also can't tell you how much a long phone call with a friend or acqaintance does for me, vs. a text or a FB post/comment. And then often you become known locally as "someone who will talk on the phone" and "a thoughtful, kind, deliberate person" and then you forge these strong connections.
This makes me think seeing models of what we aspire to is also a key component! It seems silly, but it's true these days. People can't practice or do what they've never seen done. This is true of more analog and *human* ways of living in 2023. And modeling such lives can be contagious.
This is exactly it !! -"People can't practice or do what they've never seen done. This is true of more analog and *human* ways of living in 2023. And modeling such lives can be contagious"
I think this is where we need to start - currently working on piece that will put forward concrete steps....
Facebook Marketplace and longstanding FB groups are two common reasons people give me when they say they want to quit Facebook but can't. I use Craigslist instead of FB marketplace but, as discussed elsewhere, there's not really a good sub for FB groups, especially niche groups.
Yes, I see this too. Because those things are both definite, useful benefits of FB! I definitely am not getting as much free/cheap stuff as I used to while I was on FB...
The other thing about FB is privacy concerns, though. I was shocked when I discovered FB was tracking the websites I went to on my computer, even when I didn't have Facebook itself up. I ended up getting off FB totally (after some time staying on without ever posting on my own page, but just for things like FB Marketplace) because of such privacy issues.
Thanks for this perspective, Amy, which I think adds some nuance here. I think that often we cannot replace something like Facebook, for example, with a parallel, non-tech solution. We have to add something that meets the needs FB was partially meeting in a *different* way. So in that sense, no, you are not necessarily going to get the same high-frequency, update-style connection from another source.
The question then, in terms of adding, might be -- what is the actual need? Do I have a specific need for a high-frequency, update style connection? Maybe one of the clues is in the loss of the ability to be aware of plans and social opportunities or to make them easily, which is definitely something that is lost when you get off FB or texting, because, indeed, people do make plans that way.
I am like you -- off all social media (except Twitter, which I use for work). I don't have a smartphone or a tablet or a fitbit even. Like you, I've had to cut some technologies/apps just totally out of my life because of their addictive nature. I also know what you mean about the loneliness and isolation.
But what about things like phone calls, daily ones even? Or trying to institute a calling culture (two great pieces on this here: https://hearthandfield.com/the-unexpected-visitor-reclaiming-our-lost-culture-of-calling/ AND https://hearthandfield.com/from-the-inbox-the-unexpectedly-called-upon-host/)? Or hosting an outdoor casual playgroup at a park or something for your kids? Game nights with friends? It's all harder to make happen, but it really helps with meeting the need for connection. Often I find that people want this kind of old-fashioned, IRL connection, but feel embarrassed or awkward asking others for it. You might find like-minded people come out of the woodwork if you tried it.
So I would challenge you on whether it really needs to be binary, in-or-out with something like this. Maybe there's a different way altogether. Ruth and Peco write a little bit about this in their "Return" concept. It can be hard to get it going, but it can be built over time, you know?
I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. I know we're all in different contexts.
I agree with your response in theory, but in practice, it's been absolutely brutal. And I want to be clear, I don't really want the update-style connection that Facebook offers, otherwise I would have answered the siren song long ago. I want friendship and community, but it turns out, 9 years into motherhood, even with concerted effort, so far I cannot find or build the community I long for. I host the annual block party for National Night Out, we trick or treat in our neighborhood and know all our neighbors by name, I volunteer with the parish in our atrium and at dinners, etc, so I really am out there trying, but after years upon years of planting with little harvest to show for it, I've had to think really critically about what I'm doing wrong.
I believe part of this is structural; I work part time outside the home as an engineer, so my schedule is not as flexible as a mom who is home full time, and moms who work full time don't have time for friends ;-) (I kid, but only kind of) My husband and I are also transplants to our city and state, so we don't have the social network of family to rely on. But part of this I truly chalk up to my technological invisibility; people in my community don't know me, so why should they extend their social circles to include me? They can't look me up on Facebook and make sure I pass the sniff test, and that's standard practice now. I emailed (twice!) asking to join my parish Well Read Mom book club. Never heard back. This past summer other moms of kids in my children's class at school started playing tennis on Thursday nights, which now that the weather has turned, they have a romance novel book club. I see them at least weekly at sports practice or school events, and I'm not on the invite list. I don't chalk any of this up to malice, but I do think part of it is due to the fact that I don't show up in their feeds, so out of sight is out of mind. Otherwise the only reason left is that I'm a social pariah and I'm avoiding interrogating that for as long as possible!
To be clear, I do think there is a different way, I just haven't found it yet. I've often thought about joining Substack so I could be part of this community (which has many kindred spirits whose work I admire!) but I'm afraid it would just prove to be the same near occasion of sin that Facebook and Twitter were.
I'm hoping people will chime in with some ideas for you, Amy! I completely get it. I think many of us share this kind of struggle. Sometimes I invest significantly in something like hosting a regular event and while it creates surface-level connection, it is not as good at creating intimacy. I realized this year that what I need is A) more collegial/professional friendships and B) more intimate friendships with more frequent contact than before. That's what I'm working on now. For me, all this is scary and hard and makes me vulnerable. And then it's tough when it doesn't have the desired result, as you're saying.
I just hope you'll keep trying, maybe in different ways. I'm trying a new approach this fall -- organizing fewer bigger things, and trying to turn more inward toward my own nuclear family and my dearest friends, to build those relationships, and especially to create more comforting experiences for myself and these people. I've also had to work on developing some newer friendships into closer ones, and accepting that no particular friend can meet all my friendship needs.
And professionally, I have found Substack and my writing/editorial connections through journals/magazines very nourishing. You can use Substack differently than social media -- you just have to be deliberate about it. With particular strategies. It's not easy, but you have more control.
I think the easiest new approach would probably involve gratitude for what I do have and trying to be content with it. I have a daily reminder in my introverted husband, who has an extroverted wife and three chatty children and therefore has all the social interaction he could ever want (and more)! He never explicitly asks for silence, though I work hard to provide him some because I know how restorative it is for him, so I should take a page from his book and not be constantly bemoaning what I lack!
Just want to second Dixie’s remark that Substack is a wonderful way to make connections and doesn’t have to be the same as other social media. I think in part because it isn’t “snippet” based, the way Twitter or Instagram are designed to only give you a quick glance at something. By reading people’s essays and the longer form pieces they share, it’s easier to see what you have in common and to have more interesting conversations about it. It’s not a replacement for real-life friendship, but it can be really nourishing.
This is really a great question and observation. I too love the idea of adding before subtracting but you make a great point in saying that you simply do miss out on fun, social outings because the news and invitations all flow through social media. I quit social media a few months ago and can attest to having missed out on certain things because of it. It’s true to some extent that missing out is part of the consequences for getting off of social media. We have found that adding things takes more time, effort and scheduling. And frankly it does cost a little money. One thing we did to make sure my daughter had regular play dates with her cousin was to sigh her up for play time at a place called “My Gym”. It’s got all the fun tumbling things and swings and balance beams and all of that which you would find at a gymnastics class, but it’s structured in a way that makes the kids feel like it’s play time. We’ve also just made it very clear to other parents, family and friends that we are not on social media and we ask them to try and remember to call or text us if something comes up and they think we might want to join in. Sometimes they forget and that stinks, but we forgive and ask they try to remember us in the future. Be thing you might do is to find a local church, ymca, or a local library and see what activities they may be offering for your children. We just discovered a library close to us offers so many free activities and we have made plans to take my kids.
As far as connecting as adults go, I think in order to be included on social activities, you really will need to put yourself out there, gain a reputation as someone not on social media, give out your number and be available to people who want to connect and invite you to certain things.
I realize all of my advice of more easy for extroverts, which I am. If you aren’t, I understand putting yourself out there asking to be included or including yourself may not come naturally to you or may even cause anxiety. But stepping forward and making sure you are known and included is worth it to get the social interaction you need.
This is all good advice. Also, for introverts, there's something to finding ways to feed your introverted need for restoration by seeking alone time and activities that bring you comfort and refreshment when done alone. Restorative solitude is also something that social media steals from us -- but something all of us need to some degree or another, and some of us need very much.
I am an extrovert and I haven't really minded being the "odd one out" without social media, except for (to bring this back to the focus of Dixie's piece and not have this conversation become All About Amy - sorry Dixie!) I don't think I realized when I quit social media the full penalty it would exact on my social ties, even some that I thought were relatively strong. I don't think I knew that I would struggle to find a way to add back in what I had subtracted.
You're absolutely right that it takes more time, effort, and scheduling to do all these things without social media. And I agree, when we are left out or forgotten, we do forgive. These, for me, are not the hardest parts. I think the hardest part has been that even with deliberate seeking and efforts at community building, I am still mostly alone. It's not really worth it to take the Postman Pledge if everyone else I know who has taken it I only know through a screen - that kind of defeats the point!
I think you bring up a very important point: that we don't realize how central/important these things are in our lives until we "quit" them. We think they aren't that big of a deal. BUT THEY ARE!! We don't realize it until we stop. We think we have control, etc., while using them...and then we stop using them and realize just how much of our lives we had actually been giving over to them.
This is one reason why I think Ruth's 3 R's are so helpful, and any sort of approach that sees this as a process. "Cold turkey" is just not realistic because a whole shift of mindset, both personally and communally, is necessary to make it really work.
I think this is why my (internal) response to someone leaving social media is now quite similar to my response to when they get married, or have a baby, or convert to Catholicism/Christianity - "Yay! Congratulations! I'm so happy for you! And now I'm going to start praying for you because however hard you think this is going to be, it's almost certainly going to be harder." That last part feels so cynical, but I think it's true!
Yes -- I often think, with the things you mention, that you have to take the leap first. Before you really know what it's going to be like. These decisions are acts of faith!
I agree with this so much. I would desperately love to drop Facebook, but then...how would I have known the Halloween snowstorm caused the city to cancel trick-or-treating on an hour’s notice? Or the neighborhood meeting or what the homeschool group is up to this week? I feel like most people in my circle agree that “we should be less addicted to tech”, but my husband and I are the only ones we know who are actively pursuing what that could like in our lives. The only other people who talk (write) about this stuff are on the internet, at least in our lives. and I’m well aware how ironic it is to have these sorts of conversations and fellow-travelers...on the internet. Sometimes it feels like we need a forum like this, where we’ve all sort of “gathered”, to organize a...phone-free Christmas party in west Michigan, for example. Or whatever your thing is, in your area, to start actually meeting one another and building the relationships offline.
Yes. So "no digital tech ever" is definitely something you can do, of course, but it's only one answer to "how should I handle this in *my* family?" Writing essays for online journals, communicating via e-mail, Substack and that great "gathering" you mention, etc. are all so good in my life. They still do have their temptations, but they are net positives. But that's also, for me, in the context of not having a tablet or smartphone. So I am *not* constantly available to engage with these things.
I'll add that I have actually found that things like not getting the local updates via FB have not really been a problem for me in the years that I've been off of FB (5 years or so). If there's a storm on Halloween, I check the town police dept's FB page via my internet browser -- those pages are public, without signing in, to anyone. Same with most businesses' FB pages. The neighborhood meeting and homeschool group...well, that's tougher. But I myself am okay with letting some of those things pass me by in favor of finding similar things to be involved in that don't use FB exclusively for their planning/notifications. Or maybe the homeschool group would be willing to add an e-mail list, for example?
But that's just me, in that I don't want to be on FB at all. But that's a matter for personal discernment.
I have a suspicion based on my own experience that many other people may find that solutions appear after they have made the decision to live without a certain app or technology. Sometimes you discover that you find out enough by word-of-mouth or kind friends texting you than you anticipated you would. Or that you've actually been too caught up in keeping up with things and it actually doesn't matter so much if you're a little less on the ball.
That may or may not be you, Katie! I'm just saying...hm. Maybe it's worth a shot with stepping away from FB, since you say you'd really love to drop it? Maybe see what happens? There mayb be solutions!!
Wonderful article, Dixie, and such a helpful reminder! I have a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially with technology - I'll do the unwise 'diet' move of not using it at all, and that just ultimately fails. It also isn't realistic. In an interview Fr. Matt Canlis (an Anglican priest in our area) had awhile ago, he mentioned that he didn't previously have a smart phone and didn't want to go down that rabbit-hole; but, then, his parish had told him that they wanted to learn alongside his example of how to use it wisely, not how to simply go without...which wasn't an option for most.
This is amazing and so relatable!! My wife and I were so good about limiting screen time with our first child. But when the second one was born and we both went back to work, survival mode crept in and screen time went way up. We have dialed back the screen time and ramped up the analog activities you mentioned like painting, drawing, playing outside, cooking.
I couldn’t agree more that it is viral that we as parent not only teach them the dangers of digital technology with our words, but that’s we model proper behavior for them to follow. And I wanted to add a little something to this, if I may. When we model the behavior we want to see, we need our children to see us having fun!!
I had the trap I see so many parents fall into. When they take the kids outside or to the park, the kids play and the parents sit on their phones. It doesn’t have to be this way! We can play at the park too!
When we got to the park, dad swings, and gets on the see saw and has fun too! When we break out the markers, crayons and paint, mom and dad get creative too and have fun doing it. When we cook, or do chores, we put on a record and sign and dance while we do the chores. This teaches the kids how how to have fun without digital technology and makes them more likely to follow us. And it’s good for us adults too. I know we’re always tired and sleep deprived. It’s so easy to occupy your kids with something that allows you to mentally check out. But that is not the recipe for raising happy kids who contribute to society. They need us to engage and to have a good time doing so.
That is such a beautiful point, Daniel. Tessa Carman said at her talk at the recent FPR conference something to the effect of, "You need to be having *even more fun* than your children." That is, they need to see you having fun doing these things! They will love what you love.
It's also a good thing to do some sort of good leisure activity separate from them while they play. That models some good adult behavior -- i.e. you need to read lots of books to them, but also model reading for pleasure yourself. "Dad's gonna read his book for 20 minutes; why don't you get your books to look at and sit next to me?"
I love that! I’ve actually started keeping books I like around the house and will pick them up and read them just so my daughter sees me reading simply because I love to read.
Your kids may be too young and you may not be plugged into homeschooling to know about this, but "strewing" is an important technique among unschooling families. Parents will basically leave interesting books and materials out in places where the children are likely to encounter them, as a no-pressure way of exposing them to new things. Very useful!
It's like you're modeling both strewing and picking up on things to your daughter!
I really enjoyed this piece and the realism it brings to the conversation. I think a lot of us would love to be radical and tech-free, but it isn’t always feasible, especially because so many of also want the benefits of working from home/ flex working. (I actually just wrote about this today!)
One thing that I think is worth noting or considering is a serious discernment around geographic location in relation to community. Most people live where they do because of work/career. But what if that became a secondary priority? So many of us rely on smartphones for communication, or things like fb for event invites. But what if our friends and family were our neighbours and we could actually just knock on their door or call or stop by? What if that became the way we shaped our lives? It would be, in theory, a lot easier to subtract social media once we had added in-person community. I know it’s not possible for everyone, but I think it could be a piece of the puzzle for many people.
I agree. I don't think I realized how helpful this kind of local social rootedness could be because I didn't have that growing up. I thought is was something of the past, from books.
The longer my family spends in our current Virginia town, the less likely we would be to leave. We have 11 years of root-growth here now. We'd have to start over. We have good physical neighbors on our street with whom we have relationships and trust. It's a growing gift.
But I think this is really hard to find if you don't have a natural/available extended family grouping or friend grouping to settle near. How do you chose a place if you don't have that to guide you?
Lots of people come to our town looking for rootedness, laregly because they hear we have a "great parish." We do have a great parish. But that's not all that you need...it is very hard to move here in many ways. It takes years and years to build up friendships, etc.
Nov 30, 2023·edited Nov 30, 2023Liked by Dixie Dillon Lane
I came across Emily Stimpson Chapman's recent post about this very thing they're pursuing -- moving to a place (another state) where they can literally be on the same street as friends and those from church, etc.
She said something to the effect of not wanting her kids to spend so much of their childhood in a car. Perhaps the same could be true of not wanting, as adults, to rely on tech for all social interactions.
Your point is certainly one worth worth considering, for those for whom there's a glimmer of an option or inclination. (I say this as one having multiple conversations together with my husband about our life/work/church circumstances... it can be tough, assessing and potentially reorganizing priorities... to explore what kind of net benefits and costs we're truly okay with.)
I read this too! And thought it was a good example of clear discernment in this area.
A few years ago we moved to a flat that was about 7 min walking distance from 2 houses of friends. We noticed that it really changed how much we saw everyone and the nature of hanging out instead of always planning everything. We loved it! Unfortunately none of us could afford to stay in the area but we are working hard to discern well and make practical choices that might enable that kind of life again.
“How do you choose a place if you don’t have that to guide you?” This is the key question. I think a lot of people do choose based on parishes or schools/ homeschooling communities. That can go well or badly, since sharing Faith or educational philosophy is probably a strong ground for friendship, but not a guarantee. The other alternative is to make a move with others who also don’t have family as a guide. It’s certainly not simple, though.
Okay, this is pretty niche, but it reminds me of choosing a graduate school. You can't choose it based *solely* on your advisor, because what if he/she leaves the school, or you change your topic? You have to look for a place that has several faculty members whom you could envision having on your committee and potentially working well with, even if you have one that you clearly intend to work with.
Yes! And to add to the analogy, the people coming out of the program on the one hand are a good example of what it’s like, but on the other hand, you might end up in a totally different type of cohort, so it’s no guarantee.
The cohort matters, just as your friends locally matter. Sometimes I think we have to make deliberate choices about that, too -- "I need to start to distance myself from X circle and try to deepen my relationship with Y circle."
This is so true and also sometimes hard in Christian circles where we can feel a need to be friends with everyone... but I don’t think the golden rule actually prescribes modern friendship. It’s a challenging line to walk.
Goodness me what a lively, deep conversation! I copy and pasted several parts into a word document to ponder. Many important points raised by readers here. Thanks so much for cultivating this conversation Dixie - even on Notes I saw several long lines of discussions that fleshed this topic out even further. Will give me much food for thought for the next article...
Thank you, Ruth! I found this conversation very rich, as well. Thank you for your "3 R's," which spurred the article on! I really am looking forward to your next one. There's so much to discuss in all of this!!
Using tech devices to entertain depends a lot on the child's ability to entertain themselves and your energy level to ride herd of the child who is curious about EVERYTHING touchable. I'm lucky to have a grandson who is always running full tilt toward the interesting things he sees in "Gani's Camp." He's learning the limits each time he comes, yet he has toys, books, a small keyboard, and a tray where he can play with Play-doh, tops, blocks, etc. He runs into the house and goes straight to his own play area. Only during a couple of times, did I rely on a video series, "Wheels on the Bus," that includes many many songs with an animated story. This is usually used at the end of a long, busy day when we both need to settle in the chair and relax.
We're taking a similar approach with our kids (8 and 11). Some limited "screen time" (gaming/TV) is allowed every day. I think of it like dessert/sweets. It's a nice treat to enjoy in limited quantities, and our goal is for them to develop healthy habits around tech (and sweets), rather than to have them completely unfamiliar with it before they go off on their own. Perhaps a kid who has never had candy will never develop a taste for it. But in all likelihood, no matter what they choose to do for a living, they will need a device, and they will need to learn how to handle its temptations.
For proof that a childhood devoid of tech will not prevent them from becoming addicted to it as adults, I need only point to my parents' generation. I see plenty of Boomers who are stuck on their phones.
Sounds like you are making wise decisions for good reasons! I agree that giving children the chance to learn healthy tech use with parental guidance is probably a better idea than just throwing them in the deep end at 18. I know, too, though, that children's brains are indeed affected as they form by the technologies they use and the things to which they are exposed, so I'm also in favor of prioritizing non-tech play and experience! Sounds like you are, too. There is a balance there; I think probably the younger the kid, the less reason there is to do much tech stuff.
Excellent piece! Clear & inspirational.
Thank you so much!
Dixie, I found this so practical and helpful, especially the tips about how you’ve created an outdoor and hands-on culture of play/leisure for your children. I’m also inspired by your perspective that yes, technology is actually good and useful when used judiciously, and we don't need to totally anathematize it. It’s easy to become either polarized (full-on Luddite) or apathetic; more difficult to be realistic, wise and in control. Thanks for helping show us the way to do so.
Catie, thank you. I'm so glad it's helpful. I was talking about this again with my husband last night; for example, neither of us thinks TV is really good for children, as in, in a perfect world, they'd be better off never watching it at all. But in the context we are in, where we don't have as many other ways to take little breaks from our kiddoes as we might if we had a more supportive broader situation, sometimes it *is* good for kids in that it meets my need for a break (rather than getting to *breakdown* stage) and we can choose things that are at least close to neutral/good for them to watch.
I cannot recommend buying those 8-foot 2X3's enough! They get played with every day, an have lasted for 7 years so far! Kids who visit our house also make a beeline for them. They create opportunities not just for being outside, but also for teamwork, negotiation, creative engineering, and heavy work (which is so grounding).
A good reminder for me :) We've been (all of us) much more imbedded in screens due to life being so life-y. But yes, when we set up those parameters and add good things and outdoor time and plenty of library books there's much less fussing for screens. Full dinner bellies eat less dessert ;) And I will not complain about plenty of family rest time in front of a movie, because there are some seasons where that IS your best.
"Full dinner bellies eat less dessert!" That is a great way of putting it. Another diet culture parallel -- if your are all hungry and all you can manage that night is cereal for dinner, EAT THE CEREAL. Don't just...not eat because cereal isn't good for you! In that case, cereal *is* good for you.
Your comment also made me think of the seasonality of it all...a screen-heavy season for good reasons does not mean it will always be this way. Sometimes I fall into the trap of thinking that right now is how things will be forever...but things are always changing.
The seasonality of it all!! I am trying to figure this out for myself, too (mostly when it's just me caring for our boys). Having young kids -- oftentimes with very little nap overlap -- means I could very well go entire days with no quiet space if I didn't let the older boys watch a show at very particular times. There are so many good things our young kids can (and do!) find to do during the day... but sometimes in the absence of any childcare or family around to give those breaks other families may have.... the show is what's best. And I don't feel guilty about it in this season! (Being an introvert who recharges by delving into the world of words is.... challenging with 3 kids under 4 haha.)
And later on, you'll probably go through seasons of no or fewer shows, when you have the energy and time and the kids have the maturity to create more of their own amusement! And that will be good for then! Not using a show when the show break makes so much difference in your mental and emotional (and physical! lying down!) help is pretty unwise. The time to remove shows entirely in my house, at least, is a time when I have other ways of restoring myself and getting breaks. But other wise, the show can actually really be the wise thing!
I have been pondering for a day and I am struggling to put my finger on my response to this piece. In theory I like the idea of "add before you subtract" and I think it's wise advice. But especially when it comes to the social aspects of tech and connection, I think adding is really hard due to structural factors, and subtracting is hard but lonely. This seems abstract, so here's an example. I quit Facebook in 2014 after having been an infrequent user for a few years, and I've never had any social media since. It's a near occasion of sin for me and moderation is harder to maintain than an explicit ban. But there isn't a real way to "add" that type of high-frequency, update-style connection with friends, family, and community back into my life. Social media is where lives are lived now, and I've missed out on a LOT (open invites to playground playdates, COVID exposure notifications, neighborhood meeting information, just to name a few, and this is just the stuff I know about) by not participating. There really isn't a substitute as far as I've found, and loneliness and isolation are simply the price I have paid for not participating, and that price is steep. I think there are a lot of ways around the "new tech" issues, because you can find other ways in and/or make use of "older" tech (you can listen to CDs rather than stream, you can play Scrabble rather than Words with Friends, etc.) but tech has so drastically changed *how we relate to and communicate with each other* that I have been forced to adopt a more binary position than I really want to take. In or out, no substitutions.
Right -- this is interesting! The invites and info groups are certainly things that technically *could* be communicated another way than social media, but you're right -- there are certain things that will be missed out on in the absense of a viable substitution. Those people most likely aren't going to think "Oh yeah, we need to send out an email or message to XYZ people who aren't in this Facebook group."
I say email lists should make a comeback for the norm again. :) But alas...
Or we have to create a sort of alternative social economy...so much about this at the FPR conference. Honestly, this can happen. I will attest that I myself find the steps needed for this terrifying. Actually accepting help from a neighbor when no one else seems to be doing it? Terrifying!! But what is the alternative???
For sure. This requires imagination and a collective resolve (even in small ways). But creating other social economies is the only alternative to....... *gestures all around*.
Yes. It's hard work. And when you're already feeling lonely and tired, it's tough. But I also can't tell you how much a long phone call with a friend or acqaintance does for me, vs. a text or a FB post/comment. And then often you become known locally as "someone who will talk on the phone" and "a thoughtful, kind, deliberate person" and then you forge these strong connections.
This makes me think seeing models of what we aspire to is also a key component! It seems silly, but it's true these days. People can't practice or do what they've never seen done. This is true of more analog and *human* ways of living in 2023. And modeling such lives can be contagious.
Yes. Especially inter-generational modelling.
This is exactly it !! -"People can't practice or do what they've never seen done. This is true of more analog and *human* ways of living in 2023. And modeling such lives can be contagious"
I think this is where we need to start - currently working on piece that will put forward concrete steps....
Facebook Marketplace and longstanding FB groups are two common reasons people give me when they say they want to quit Facebook but can't. I use Craigslist instead of FB marketplace but, as discussed elsewhere, there's not really a good sub for FB groups, especially niche groups.
Yes, I see this too. Because those things are both definite, useful benefits of FB! I definitely am not getting as much free/cheap stuff as I used to while I was on FB...
The other thing about FB is privacy concerns, though. I was shocked when I discovered FB was tracking the websites I went to on my computer, even when I didn't have Facebook itself up. I ended up getting off FB totally (after some time staying on without ever posting on my own page, but just for things like FB Marketplace) because of such privacy issues.
Thanks for this perspective, Amy, which I think adds some nuance here. I think that often we cannot replace something like Facebook, for example, with a parallel, non-tech solution. We have to add something that meets the needs FB was partially meeting in a *different* way. So in that sense, no, you are not necessarily going to get the same high-frequency, update-style connection from another source.
The question then, in terms of adding, might be -- what is the actual need? Do I have a specific need for a high-frequency, update style connection? Maybe one of the clues is in the loss of the ability to be aware of plans and social opportunities or to make them easily, which is definitely something that is lost when you get off FB or texting, because, indeed, people do make plans that way.
I am like you -- off all social media (except Twitter, which I use for work). I don't have a smartphone or a tablet or a fitbit even. Like you, I've had to cut some technologies/apps just totally out of my life because of their addictive nature. I also know what you mean about the loneliness and isolation.
But what about things like phone calls, daily ones even? Or trying to institute a calling culture (two great pieces on this here: https://hearthandfield.com/the-unexpected-visitor-reclaiming-our-lost-culture-of-calling/ AND https://hearthandfield.com/from-the-inbox-the-unexpectedly-called-upon-host/)? Or hosting an outdoor casual playgroup at a park or something for your kids? Game nights with friends? It's all harder to make happen, but it really helps with meeting the need for connection. Often I find that people want this kind of old-fashioned, IRL connection, but feel embarrassed or awkward asking others for it. You might find like-minded people come out of the woodwork if you tried it.
So I would challenge you on whether it really needs to be binary, in-or-out with something like this. Maybe there's a different way altogether. Ruth and Peco write a little bit about this in their "Return" concept. It can be hard to get it going, but it can be built over time, you know?
I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. I know we're all in different contexts.
I agree with your response in theory, but in practice, it's been absolutely brutal. And I want to be clear, I don't really want the update-style connection that Facebook offers, otherwise I would have answered the siren song long ago. I want friendship and community, but it turns out, 9 years into motherhood, even with concerted effort, so far I cannot find or build the community I long for. I host the annual block party for National Night Out, we trick or treat in our neighborhood and know all our neighbors by name, I volunteer with the parish in our atrium and at dinners, etc, so I really am out there trying, but after years upon years of planting with little harvest to show for it, I've had to think really critically about what I'm doing wrong.
I believe part of this is structural; I work part time outside the home as an engineer, so my schedule is not as flexible as a mom who is home full time, and moms who work full time don't have time for friends ;-) (I kid, but only kind of) My husband and I are also transplants to our city and state, so we don't have the social network of family to rely on. But part of this I truly chalk up to my technological invisibility; people in my community don't know me, so why should they extend their social circles to include me? They can't look me up on Facebook and make sure I pass the sniff test, and that's standard practice now. I emailed (twice!) asking to join my parish Well Read Mom book club. Never heard back. This past summer other moms of kids in my children's class at school started playing tennis on Thursday nights, which now that the weather has turned, they have a romance novel book club. I see them at least weekly at sports practice or school events, and I'm not on the invite list. I don't chalk any of this up to malice, but I do think part of it is due to the fact that I don't show up in their feeds, so out of sight is out of mind. Otherwise the only reason left is that I'm a social pariah and I'm avoiding interrogating that for as long as possible!
To be clear, I do think there is a different way, I just haven't found it yet. I've often thought about joining Substack so I could be part of this community (which has many kindred spirits whose work I admire!) but I'm afraid it would just prove to be the same near occasion of sin that Facebook and Twitter were.
I'm hoping people will chime in with some ideas for you, Amy! I completely get it. I think many of us share this kind of struggle. Sometimes I invest significantly in something like hosting a regular event and while it creates surface-level connection, it is not as good at creating intimacy. I realized this year that what I need is A) more collegial/professional friendships and B) more intimate friendships with more frequent contact than before. That's what I'm working on now. For me, all this is scary and hard and makes me vulnerable. And then it's tough when it doesn't have the desired result, as you're saying.
I just hope you'll keep trying, maybe in different ways. I'm trying a new approach this fall -- organizing fewer bigger things, and trying to turn more inward toward my own nuclear family and my dearest friends, to build those relationships, and especially to create more comforting experiences for myself and these people. I've also had to work on developing some newer friendships into closer ones, and accepting that no particular friend can meet all my friendship needs.
And professionally, I have found Substack and my writing/editorial connections through journals/magazines very nourishing. You can use Substack differently than social media -- you just have to be deliberate about it. With particular strategies. It's not easy, but you have more control.
I think the easiest new approach would probably involve gratitude for what I do have and trying to be content with it. I have a daily reminder in my introverted husband, who has an extroverted wife and three chatty children and therefore has all the social interaction he could ever want (and more)! He never explicitly asks for silence, though I work hard to provide him some because I know how restorative it is for him, so I should take a page from his book and not be constantly bemoaning what I lack!
That's beautiful, Amy!
Just want to second Dixie’s remark that Substack is a wonderful way to make connections and doesn’t have to be the same as other social media. I think in part because it isn’t “snippet” based, the way Twitter or Instagram are designed to only give you a quick glance at something. By reading people’s essays and the longer form pieces they share, it’s easier to see what you have in common and to have more interesting conversations about it. It’s not a replacement for real-life friendship, but it can be really nourishing.
Case in point: meeting and corresponding with Kerri!
Exactly what I had in mind! :)
This is really a great question and observation. I too love the idea of adding before subtracting but you make a great point in saying that you simply do miss out on fun, social outings because the news and invitations all flow through social media. I quit social media a few months ago and can attest to having missed out on certain things because of it. It’s true to some extent that missing out is part of the consequences for getting off of social media. We have found that adding things takes more time, effort and scheduling. And frankly it does cost a little money. One thing we did to make sure my daughter had regular play dates with her cousin was to sigh her up for play time at a place called “My Gym”. It’s got all the fun tumbling things and swings and balance beams and all of that which you would find at a gymnastics class, but it’s structured in a way that makes the kids feel like it’s play time. We’ve also just made it very clear to other parents, family and friends that we are not on social media and we ask them to try and remember to call or text us if something comes up and they think we might want to join in. Sometimes they forget and that stinks, but we forgive and ask they try to remember us in the future. Be thing you might do is to find a local church, ymca, or a local library and see what activities they may be offering for your children. We just discovered a library close to us offers so many free activities and we have made plans to take my kids.
As far as connecting as adults go, I think in order to be included on social activities, you really will need to put yourself out there, gain a reputation as someone not on social media, give out your number and be available to people who want to connect and invite you to certain things.
I realize all of my advice of more easy for extroverts, which I am. If you aren’t, I understand putting yourself out there asking to be included or including yourself may not come naturally to you or may even cause anxiety. But stepping forward and making sure you are known and included is worth it to get the social interaction you need.
This is all good advice. Also, for introverts, there's something to finding ways to feed your introverted need for restoration by seeking alone time and activities that bring you comfort and refreshment when done alone. Restorative solitude is also something that social media steals from us -- but something all of us need to some degree or another, and some of us need very much.
I am an extrovert and I haven't really minded being the "odd one out" without social media, except for (to bring this back to the focus of Dixie's piece and not have this conversation become All About Amy - sorry Dixie!) I don't think I realized when I quit social media the full penalty it would exact on my social ties, even some that I thought were relatively strong. I don't think I knew that I would struggle to find a way to add back in what I had subtracted.
You're absolutely right that it takes more time, effort, and scheduling to do all these things without social media. And I agree, when we are left out or forgotten, we do forgive. These, for me, are not the hardest parts. I think the hardest part has been that even with deliberate seeking and efforts at community building, I am still mostly alone. It's not really worth it to take the Postman Pledge if everyone else I know who has taken it I only know through a screen - that kind of defeats the point!
Don't apologize -- this is a great conversation!
I think you bring up a very important point: that we don't realize how central/important these things are in our lives until we "quit" them. We think they aren't that big of a deal. BUT THEY ARE!! We don't realize it until we stop. We think we have control, etc., while using them...and then we stop using them and realize just how much of our lives we had actually been giving over to them.
This is one reason why I think Ruth's 3 R's are so helpful, and any sort of approach that sees this as a process. "Cold turkey" is just not realistic because a whole shift of mindset, both personally and communally, is necessary to make it really work.
It's mindblowing to me.
I think this is why my (internal) response to someone leaving social media is now quite similar to my response to when they get married, or have a baby, or convert to Catholicism/Christianity - "Yay! Congratulations! I'm so happy for you! And now I'm going to start praying for you because however hard you think this is going to be, it's almost certainly going to be harder." That last part feels so cynical, but I think it's true!
Yes -- I often think, with the things you mention, that you have to take the leap first. Before you really know what it's going to be like. These decisions are acts of faith!
I agree with this so much. I would desperately love to drop Facebook, but then...how would I have known the Halloween snowstorm caused the city to cancel trick-or-treating on an hour’s notice? Or the neighborhood meeting or what the homeschool group is up to this week? I feel like most people in my circle agree that “we should be less addicted to tech”, but my husband and I are the only ones we know who are actively pursuing what that could like in our lives. The only other people who talk (write) about this stuff are on the internet, at least in our lives. and I’m well aware how ironic it is to have these sorts of conversations and fellow-travelers...on the internet. Sometimes it feels like we need a forum like this, where we’ve all sort of “gathered”, to organize a...phone-free Christmas party in west Michigan, for example. Or whatever your thing is, in your area, to start actually meeting one another and building the relationships offline.
Yes. So "no digital tech ever" is definitely something you can do, of course, but it's only one answer to "how should I handle this in *my* family?" Writing essays for online journals, communicating via e-mail, Substack and that great "gathering" you mention, etc. are all so good in my life. They still do have their temptations, but they are net positives. But that's also, for me, in the context of not having a tablet or smartphone. So I am *not* constantly available to engage with these things.
I'll add that I have actually found that things like not getting the local updates via FB have not really been a problem for me in the years that I've been off of FB (5 years or so). If there's a storm on Halloween, I check the town police dept's FB page via my internet browser -- those pages are public, without signing in, to anyone. Same with most businesses' FB pages. The neighborhood meeting and homeschool group...well, that's tougher. But I myself am okay with letting some of those things pass me by in favor of finding similar things to be involved in that don't use FB exclusively for their planning/notifications. Or maybe the homeschool group would be willing to add an e-mail list, for example?
But that's just me, in that I don't want to be on FB at all. But that's a matter for personal discernment.
I have a suspicion based on my own experience that many other people may find that solutions appear after they have made the decision to live without a certain app or technology. Sometimes you discover that you find out enough by word-of-mouth or kind friends texting you than you anticipated you would. Or that you've actually been too caught up in keeping up with things and it actually doesn't matter so much if you're a little less on the ball.
That may or may not be you, Katie! I'm just saying...hm. Maybe it's worth a shot with stepping away from FB, since you say you'd really love to drop it? Maybe see what happens? There mayb be solutions!!
Wonderful article, Dixie, and such a helpful reminder! I have a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially with technology - I'll do the unwise 'diet' move of not using it at all, and that just ultimately fails. It also isn't realistic. In an interview Fr. Matt Canlis (an Anglican priest in our area) had awhile ago, he mentioned that he didn't previously have a smart phone and didn't want to go down that rabbit-hole; but, then, his parish had told him that they wanted to learn alongside his example of how to use it wisely, not how to simply go without...which wasn't an option for most.
That is really interesting about the priest and the smartphone. Modelling seems to be really important!!
This is amazing and so relatable!! My wife and I were so good about limiting screen time with our first child. But when the second one was born and we both went back to work, survival mode crept in and screen time went way up. We have dialed back the screen time and ramped up the analog activities you mentioned like painting, drawing, playing outside, cooking.
I couldn’t agree more that it is viral that we as parent not only teach them the dangers of digital technology with our words, but that’s we model proper behavior for them to follow. And I wanted to add a little something to this, if I may. When we model the behavior we want to see, we need our children to see us having fun!!
I had the trap I see so many parents fall into. When they take the kids outside or to the park, the kids play and the parents sit on their phones. It doesn’t have to be this way! We can play at the park too!
When we got to the park, dad swings, and gets on the see saw and has fun too! When we break out the markers, crayons and paint, mom and dad get creative too and have fun doing it. When we cook, or do chores, we put on a record and sign and dance while we do the chores. This teaches the kids how how to have fun without digital technology and makes them more likely to follow us. And it’s good for us adults too. I know we’re always tired and sleep deprived. It’s so easy to occupy your kids with something that allows you to mentally check out. But that is not the recipe for raising happy kids who contribute to society. They need us to engage and to have a good time doing so.
That is such a beautiful point, Daniel. Tessa Carman said at her talk at the recent FPR conference something to the effect of, "You need to be having *even more fun* than your children." That is, they need to see you having fun doing these things! They will love what you love.
It's also a good thing to do some sort of good leisure activity separate from them while they play. That models some good adult behavior -- i.e. you need to read lots of books to them, but also model reading for pleasure yourself. "Dad's gonna read his book for 20 minutes; why don't you get your books to look at and sit next to me?"
I love that! I’ve actually started keeping books I like around the house and will pick them up and read them just so my daughter sees me reading simply because I love to read.
That's wonderful!
Your kids may be too young and you may not be plugged into homeschooling to know about this, but "strewing" is an important technique among unschooling families. Parents will basically leave interesting books and materials out in places where the children are likely to encounter them, as a no-pressure way of exposing them to new things. Very useful!
It's like you're modeling both strewing and picking up on things to your daughter!
Wow! Stewing! I’ve never heard of it but it makes all the sense in the world!
I really enjoyed this piece and the realism it brings to the conversation. I think a lot of us would love to be radical and tech-free, but it isn’t always feasible, especially because so many of also want the benefits of working from home/ flex working. (I actually just wrote about this today!)
One thing that I think is worth noting or considering is a serious discernment around geographic location in relation to community. Most people live where they do because of work/career. But what if that became a secondary priority? So many of us rely on smartphones for communication, or things like fb for event invites. But what if our friends and family were our neighbours and we could actually just knock on their door or call or stop by? What if that became the way we shaped our lives? It would be, in theory, a lot easier to subtract social media once we had added in-person community. I know it’s not possible for everyone, but I think it could be a piece of the puzzle for many people.
I agree. I don't think I realized how helpful this kind of local social rootedness could be because I didn't have that growing up. I thought is was something of the past, from books.
The longer my family spends in our current Virginia town, the less likely we would be to leave. We have 11 years of root-growth here now. We'd have to start over. We have good physical neighbors on our street with whom we have relationships and trust. It's a growing gift.
But I think this is really hard to find if you don't have a natural/available extended family grouping or friend grouping to settle near. How do you chose a place if you don't have that to guide you?
Lots of people come to our town looking for rootedness, laregly because they hear we have a "great parish." We do have a great parish. But that's not all that you need...it is very hard to move here in many ways. It takes years and years to build up friendships, etc.
I came across Emily Stimpson Chapman's recent post about this very thing they're pursuing -- moving to a place (another state) where they can literally be on the same street as friends and those from church, etc.
She said something to the effect of not wanting her kids to spend so much of their childhood in a car. Perhaps the same could be true of not wanting, as adults, to rely on tech for all social interactions.
Your point is certainly one worth worth considering, for those for whom there's a glimmer of an option or inclination. (I say this as one having multiple conversations together with my husband about our life/work/church circumstances... it can be tough, assessing and potentially reorganizing priorities... to explore what kind of net benefits and costs we're truly okay with.)
Do you have a link to the post, Haley? Sounds fascinating.
Yeah -- I realized it's behind a paywall so in all reality I only read what was available. ha! But it was enough to intrigue me.
https://emilystimpsonchapman.substack.com/p/moving-home
I read this too! And thought it was a good example of clear discernment in this area.
A few years ago we moved to a flat that was about 7 min walking distance from 2 houses of friends. We noticed that it really changed how much we saw everyone and the nature of hanging out instead of always planning everything. We loved it! Unfortunately none of us could afford to stay in the area but we are working hard to discern well and make practical choices that might enable that kind of life again.
“How do you choose a place if you don’t have that to guide you?” This is the key question. I think a lot of people do choose based on parishes or schools/ homeschooling communities. That can go well or badly, since sharing Faith or educational philosophy is probably a strong ground for friendship, but not a guarantee. The other alternative is to make a move with others who also don’t have family as a guide. It’s certainly not simple, though.
Okay, this is pretty niche, but it reminds me of choosing a graduate school. You can't choose it based *solely* on your advisor, because what if he/she leaves the school, or you change your topic? You have to look for a place that has several faculty members whom you could envision having on your committee and potentially working well with, even if you have one that you clearly intend to work with.
Yes! And to add to the analogy, the people coming out of the program on the one hand are a good example of what it’s like, but on the other hand, you might end up in a totally different type of cohort, so it’s no guarantee.
The cohort matters, just as your friends locally matter. Sometimes I think we have to make deliberate choices about that, too -- "I need to start to distance myself from X circle and try to deepen my relationship with Y circle."
This is so true and also sometimes hard in Christian circles where we can feel a need to be friends with everyone... but I don’t think the golden rule actually prescribes modern friendship. It’s a challenging line to walk.
We need more specifically-defined categories of friendship and acquaintanceship to help us understand our different relationships.
Goodness me what a lively, deep conversation! I copy and pasted several parts into a word document to ponder. Many important points raised by readers here. Thanks so much for cultivating this conversation Dixie - even on Notes I saw several long lines of discussions that fleshed this topic out even further. Will give me much food for thought for the next article...
Thank you, Ruth! I found this conversation very rich, as well. Thank you for your "3 R's," which spurred the article on! I really am looking forward to your next one. There's so much to discuss in all of this!!
Using tech devices to entertain depends a lot on the child's ability to entertain themselves and your energy level to ride herd of the child who is curious about EVERYTHING touchable. I'm lucky to have a grandson who is always running full tilt toward the interesting things he sees in "Gani's Camp." He's learning the limits each time he comes, yet he has toys, books, a small keyboard, and a tray where he can play with Play-doh, tops, blocks, etc. He runs into the house and goes straight to his own play area. Only during a couple of times, did I rely on a video series, "Wheels on the Bus," that includes many many songs with an animated story. This is usually used at the end of a long, busy day when we both need to settle in the chair and relax.
Very nice, Sue! Yes, I think in many tech-conscious families (like my own) videos are used quite judiciously.
We're taking a similar approach with our kids (8 and 11). Some limited "screen time" (gaming/TV) is allowed every day. I think of it like dessert/sweets. It's a nice treat to enjoy in limited quantities, and our goal is for them to develop healthy habits around tech (and sweets), rather than to have them completely unfamiliar with it before they go off on their own. Perhaps a kid who has never had candy will never develop a taste for it. But in all likelihood, no matter what they choose to do for a living, they will need a device, and they will need to learn how to handle its temptations.
For proof that a childhood devoid of tech will not prevent them from becoming addicted to it as adults, I need only point to my parents' generation. I see plenty of Boomers who are stuck on their phones.
Sounds like you are making wise decisions for good reasons! I agree that giving children the chance to learn healthy tech use with parental guidance is probably a better idea than just throwing them in the deep end at 18. I know, too, though, that children's brains are indeed affected as they form by the technologies they use and the things to which they are exposed, so I'm also in favor of prioritizing non-tech play and experience! Sounds like you are, too. There is a balance there; I think probably the younger the kid, the less reason there is to do much tech stuff.